__ Summary and Contributions__: The author proposed a quasi-newton optimization algorithm for solving DNN. Second-order algorithms are not popular as today because the computation cost and storage cost of maintaining the hessian matrix can be prohibitive. The author approximate the hessian matrix using a block diagonal matrix which reduces the cost significantly. They further proposed proper damping method to control the upper / lower bound in BFGS.

__ Strengths__: Due to the popularity of DNN models, any minor improvement in the optimization space can have huge impact. Therefore, I'm very happy to see this work moves second-order optimization forward. It is essentially a challenging problem because the activation function and network structure can be complex.
Empirical results show the proposed method works. Yet the techniques are very general. It may benefit more networks than auto-encoders.

__ Weaknesses__: I don't see obvious limitations.

__ Correctness__: Yes

__ Clarity__: Yes.
Some minor issues:
- "LBFGS" and "L-BFGS" should be unified.
- line 68: New BGFS and L-BFGS, should be "BFGS"
- the gap between line 77 / 78 is too wide. Double check if adding authors will resolve it

__ Relation to Prior Work__: Yes. The proof of convergence should be new. I didn't see it before.

__ Reproducibility__: Yes

__ Additional Feedback__:

__ Summary and Contributions__: The authors develop stochastic quasi-Newton methods for training deep neural networks (DNNs). In particular, they design Kronecker-factored block-diagonal type BFGS and L-BFGS methods. In numerical examples, they demonstrate the acceleration effect of the proposed methods for autoencoder feed-forward neural network models with either nine or thirteen layers applied to three datasets.

__ Strengths__: 1. The authors develop new BFGS and L-BFGS methods using the feed-forward structure DNN of an inverse Hessian approximation.
2. They provide the proof of convergence of a stochastic Kronecker-factored
quasi-Newton method.

__ Weaknesses__: The paper is clear.

__ Correctness__: The claim is correct. The method describes the Kronecker structures of the
gradient and Hessian based on a single point, and then extend it to the expectation structure in learning problem. In these formulations, they formulate the approximated Hessian operators by BFGS.

__ Clarity__: The paper is well written, expect a typo in "Our contributions...New BGFS..." This should be "New BFGS''.

__ Relation to Prior Work__: There is also other type of natural gradient based on L^2 Wasserstein, which can be useful.
Li, et.al. Natural gradient via optimal transport, Informaton geometry, 2018.
Wang. et. al. Information Newton's flow: second-order optimization method in probability space, 2020.

__ Reproducibility__: Yes

__ Additional Feedback__: 1. For the construction of Hessian matrix for neural parameters, what is the major difference between the proposed method with the classical BFGS methods? What is the most challenging part in current work, on the approximation of Hessian and on the formulation Hessian inverse in neural networks?
2. How does the current method connect with the Fisher-Rao natural gradient, a.k.a. Hessian preconditioned gradient flow in neural networks?
I have read the author's response. It totally addresses my questions. I increase my score from 7 to 9.

__ Summary and Contributions__: This paper proposes a stochastic Quasi-Newton (QN) method based on BFGS updates that exploits the structure of feed-forward neural networks. The technique approximates the loss Hessian as a block diagonal matrix where each block represents a layer based on a Kronecker-factored approximation. As blocks of the estimated inverse Hessian are factored into two terms, the authors propose separate BFGS-like updates with different damping schemes to ensure that the approximated matrix is positive definite (and simultaneously limiting the decrease in its smallest eigenvalue). Moreover, under not too restrictive assumptions they prove convergence of the proposed algorithm (without the double damping scheme). Through numerical experiments they demonstrate that the algorithm has better or on-par convergence speed on training data as typical first-order methods and KFAC (a related QN algorithm for deep neural networks using the Kronecker approximation).

__ Strengths__: Exploiting curvature information in deep neural network training has been of interest to researchers in the community due to its potential to significantly reduce training time and therefore the problem investigated by this paper is very relevant to the NeurIPS community. The theoretical grounding of the algorithm is sound. Building upon the well-known KFAC framework, this paper brings new ideas to the table in the form of novel BFGS updates and damping schemes to approximate blocks of the Hessian inverse and hence avoiding the costly matrix inversion step present in KFAC. Table 2 demonstrates the favorable scaling with input/output dimensions compared to KFAC (d_i^3, d_o^3 due to inversion versus d_i^2 and d_o). Many insights of the BFGS framework apply to the proposed algorithm, and the main theorem provides a valuable convergence guarantee in a highly non-convex setting.

__ Weaknesses__: There are some weaknesses of QN methods applied to deep neural networks that also somewhat limit the applicability of the proposed algorithm.
First, there are additional hyperparameters compared to first-order methods that need to be tuned beyond learning rate, namely damping terms (two for this algorithm), decay parameter for calculating moving-average to stabilize BFGS updates and the memory-parameter p for LBFGS. The authors merged the two damping terms into a single hyperparameter assuming some relation between them and performed sensitivity analysis, however a systematic way of tuning all these hyperparameters to a new application remains a bit challenging.
Second, generalization performance of deep networks trained via second-order methods might lag behind first-order methods such as small batch SGD and Adam, especially without careful hyperparameter tuning. The authors have chosen not to include generalization results in the experiments and argued that the focus of the paper is comparing optimization techniques. While I more or less agree with the authors, demonstrating that the proposed algorithm has comparable (or at least reasonable) generalization to the related techniques would better position it as a practical QN method.
Lastly, in its current form the proposed algorithm is applied to neural networks with fully connected layers. In order for it to become more practical and applicable to current state-of-the-art architectures an efficient extension to convolutional layers and normalization layers with parameters would be important (such as KFAC for convolutional networks).
Post rebuttal: I appreciate the authors' effort to answer my concerns. The test accuracy plots seem to verify that the proposed algorithm has good generalization performance. I updated my score accordingly.

__ Correctness__: The claims and proofs presented in the main submission appear to be correct. The experimental validation and comparison to other algorithms is fair, however the network used for comparison is somewhat outdated (but it is understandable for comparison, the same network was used in the KFAC paper).

__ Clarity__: The paper is well-written and clear for most parts. Initially, I found it a bit confusing that H is used for the inverse Hessian approximation, whereas it is standard to use the same notation for the Hessian. It might also be interesting to add more discussion on the structural approximation and its limitations and validity in the deep learning context, as it was somewhat lacking. There are a couple of typos, please check lines 63, 111, 194.

__ Relation to Prior Work__: Authors clearly differentiate their work from the closely related KFAC algorithm throughout the paper. The literature review provides a good list of approaches to incorporate second-order information in the context of neural network optimization, however the authors could put more emphasis on highlighting how their algorithm is different from each of these algorithms in the Introduction. The contributions of this work are clearly stated in the paper.

__ Reproducibility__: Yes

__ Additional Feedback__: Some discussion on the large-scale application of the proposed algorithm, especially its distributed deployment on compute servers would be very interesting. Do the authors plan on looking into a distributed implementation of the algorithm?

__ Summary and Contributions__: In this paper, the authors propose efficient quasi-Newton methods for feedforward neural networks by exploiting the Kronecker-factored block-diagonal structure.
The idea is built upon a deterministic version of BFGS method on this structure.
Several damping schemes are adopted to address this positive-definite issue in BFGS.

__ Strengths__: This work shows that the BFGS idea can be used while preserving the Kronecker-factored block-diagonal structure. Several damping techniques and variance reduction techniques (such as moving average) are also suggested in a mini-batch setting.
This work looks very interesting and new.

__ Weaknesses__: In this work, the mini-batch size is m=1000, which seems to be too big. I wonder whether the proposed methods can be used in a small mini-batch setting (e.g. m=50 or m=100).
The proposed methods mainly follow the key idea of the deterministic BFGS method.
It is likely that the proposed methods work well since mini-batch gradients are not too noisy. This issue should be clarified.

__ Correctness__: The algorithmic detail seems to be correct since it mainly follows the deterministic version of BGFS.
I do not carefully check the convergence analysis.

__ Clarity__: I think this paper is well-written.
It will be more clear if the authors explicitly mention the reason why two forward-backward passes are required in Algorithm 2 since the deterministic BFGS method only requires one forward-backward pass.
I think the reason is H_g and H_a should be updated over the same mini-batch, which requires us to compute a new pair (x_g,y_g) over the same mini-batch.

__ Relation to Prior Work__: I am not aware of prior works in exploiting the Kronecker-factored block-diagonal for BFGS methods.

__ Reproducibility__: Yes

__ Additional Feedback__: It will be great to include plots using test loss since the focus of this paper is on practical algorithms for DNN.
The authors also should report the performance of the proposed methods when the mini-batch size is reasonably small.
I have read the author's response. It addresses my questions. I increase my score accordingly.